I finally talked to a customer…and it was hard.

A lot of people have ideas, in fact it’s one of the things that makes everyone an “entrepreneur.” It’s when those ideas have to actually be tested that most people disqualify themselves as entrepreneurs. Anyone can think of an idea, and that’s not a bad thing. Everyone has pains that they observe, even Lewis Carrol’s Queen of Hearts has believed as many as “six thousand impossible things before breakfast.” One of the key breakthroughs of the Lean Startup methodology popularized in the last few years is intense customer engagement.

“No business plan survives first contact with a customer.” Steve Blank

A lot of people (including several dot com duds) have had issues with asking customers what they want because “if [they] asked their customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.” Customers lie to you. All the time. When I helped judge the International Business Model Competition held last month at Microsoft headquarters in Seattle, Chad Carlos taught a breakout session literally entitled “Why Your Customers Are Lying To You,” which included topics like how to get your mom to stop lying to you, focusing on genuine conversations and asking about experiences rather than Yes or No questions.

I’ve worked with startups, I’ve told them to ask questions, to monitor their customers behavior, their usage and to “make something people want.” But until recently, I had never really practiced what I preached. I started working with a startup called Ripple (not that one) that helps people engage with their budget in a way that changes their behavior more than an attractively passive historical report, showing you how much money you shouldn’t have spent last month.

I was finally in a situation where I needed to be the one talking to customers and understanding their pain.

Round one: I find myself talking to a friend of mine, a young, married fellow (ideal target customer), “do you budget?” His answer is exactly on point: “I started using Mint but didn’t like it and so now I use a spreadsheet.” My mouth starts to water. His whole life was about to change. I start telling him about Ripple, but then I realize I’m selling. I try and shift back to his pain, asking questions focused on experiences, but he’s talking about investment accounts. I’m dumbfounded. He finishes an explanation of something unrelated and, defeated, I say that that could be a pain to solve, but it wasn’t what we did.

I felt like a failure. Had I gotten any valuable information from that conversation? I didn’t know whether to think the idea was stupid, or he was stupid or (the more likely answer) that I was a little bit stupid.

That night I had dinner with a friend and his wife. They were also recently married, young, millenial-age folks. I decided to redeem myself.

Round two: I asked if they budgeted. They started explaining a competitor that I already knew about and my brain began to grin. They expressed some pains they had, they didn’t like the way it categorized their expenses, they didn’t feel like it offered a lot of value. We talked about what they were trying to accomplish. In my mind, I’m presenting them with a golden solution to their every woe and whim. I explain the solution we’re offering.

“Mmm…that doesn’t really resonate with me.” I was shocked. What had I done wrong? I had just finished reading Nail it Then Scale it which, surprisingly, was released exactly 5 years ago TODAY. I was drenched in customer-centric talking points. And here I was, with nothing to show for it. Obviously, I had a stupid idea. Or my explanation was worthless. What had I done wrong? I’m cringing, struggling, fighting to know the issue.

“Get closer than ever to your customers. So close, in fact, that you tell them what they need well before they realize it themselves.” Steve Jobs

Lightbulb. That first conversation? I was asking about the competitor more than I was asking about the pain. That second conversation? He proceeded to tell me about the idea he had that was somewhat in the same space. The pitched had become the pitcher. He was more focused on telling me his idea than thinking about the pain he had.

Here’s one issue: when the friends you have are also very startup-minded, it can be hard for them to pull away from the business model evaluations they’re used to and focus on “what pains do I, as a customer, feel?”

In some instances, you can get even more information from your potential customers by ignoring the fact that you’re working on a startup. The only thing you care about is the decisions they make, the pains they feel, the thoughts they’ve had while they’re going through the process within which you’re trying to innovate.

So sometimes the answer to the question, “why do my customers lie to me?” is “because you’re not very good at asking them questions.”

“In order to understand the world, you have to get outside. Get outside your comfort zone. Talk to customers, suppliers and competitors. It is only by getting outside the building, outside the company, outside your circle of friends to see the world clearly. You can’t understand reality while sitting at your desk.” Nathan Furr & Paul Ahlstrom